Suzy B Software 2/Suzy B Software CD-ROM 2 (1994).iso/textfile/txt_a2k/dave_gbs/small.rtc

Text File | 1995-04-25 | 35.5 KB | 836 lines

=========================================================================
(C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May
be reprinted only with this notice intact.  The Atari Roundtables on
GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign
up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369.  Upon connection
type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE
and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information.
==========================================================================



                      Wednesday Night Real Time Conference

                               July 7, 1993

                          Host - Brian H. Harvey

                      Guest Speaker - Dave Small



<[HOST] BRIAN.H> On behalf of the Atari ST Roundtable, I welcome all
of you to this GADGET Real Time Conference. Tonight I would like to
welcome Dave Small. Dave is well know to the ATARI community as a
renaissance ATARI developer. That is he is into writing, programming
and philosophizing about the ATARI!!

 I don't think Dave need any further intro, so..

 Welcome Dave, do you have a few words to begin this evening
 RTC?

<DAVESMALL> Well, Brian, as usual, I had a lot of words. Alas,
ToshibaSan disks do not read into the ST, so I think I'll just say
Hi!, We're Back!, and it is good to be back.  The only thing which I
wanted to mention was to thank the many people who helped with Eric,
in email, FAX, letters, and so forth. They got us through 1992. As of
NOW, Spectre 3.1 is in Alpha Test! So we're booking. Do you want me to
describe it?

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> yes

<DAVESMALL> 3.1 is Spectre 3.0 with MegaSTE cache bug fixed and timing
loops fixed, hopefully up to 50 Mhz. (46 Mhz I know for sure). It
supports TT hard disks, and can re-mount removable media while in
Spectre mode.  We now support XGM partitions, up to 14 per drive, and
support ACSI/SCSI or SCSI/IDE depending on your machinery with twin HD
menus. We also have a new, hidden dedication page. Finally, we are
planning on releasing 3.2, 3.3, and so forth as I finish them, rather
than holding them (and 3.1) for release together. That way, the users
get more faster. The TT people have wanted hard disks for a long time.
Also,  we are putting lots of effort into catchup. We now have
telephone support normal business hours through Wendy Pfenske, a
former 9-1-1 operator (so she can handle ANY tech call!) and are
busily getting repairs and updates shipped out. As I posted, Eric is
finally 100% healthy, with scars that just don't impress girls at all,
and we're getting back to normal. It's been a long time.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Dave!! Next up is Dan from Gribnif. It is all
yours Dan!!

<GRIBNIF> David, in September of 1992, we sent you a Crazy Dots video
board to test your products with. At the time, you insisted that you
did not receive it in the mail. Later, in February of 1993, we were
contacted by a potential customer who said that he seen the video card
in your possession. Then, in March of 1993, you even called personally
and told one of our employees that you had finally gotten the card in
the mail, and that you would be returning it soon. Since then, all of
my repeated requests by phone, fax, and email, for you to return the
card have been completely ignored. So, now that I have you here, on
behalf of Gribnif Software, I am asking you to either return the card
to us in the same condition it was when you received it, or pay the
full amount we are due for it.

<DAVESMALL> Uh, Dan, we have every intention of paying for it. We are
planning on supporting new video cards for Spectre and Crazy Dots is
one of the more popular ones.

<GRIBNIF> OK, so when can I expect a check? This has gone on far too
long.

<DAVESMALL> However, you got caught in the "catchups". Tell you what.
It's Wednesday. Friday? Or would that be too soon? (Remember I did
not have the board a long time.) I don't think I can make tomorrow.
Feddex closed.

<GRIBNIF> four months is plenty. Yes, Fed Ex leaving CO on Thursday is
fine with me.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Ok, let's get back to questions about products.
Anything else Dan?

<DAVESMALL> Dan, grin, you have no idea how much fun that graphics
chip has been. But you have a deal.

<GRIBNIF> nope, Brian

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Dan, next we have Jim Steingrobe, go Jim!!

<DAVESMALL> Dan, don't be surprised if we also order the accelerator.
(whups, expansion. Sorry.) Yes, Jim, we are shipping all the time now.

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> Dave, I have wanting to get my original disk back
for 19 months now can I expect it soon? You told me that last time

<DAVESMALL> Jim, the amount that piled up from May 17 1992 to when we
could let the phone go is just unreal. Every letter has something to
be done. It's been fun playing catchup and getting new s/w written.
However, just for fun, refresh my memory (I've got capture on so I can
make this stuff priority) -- what disk again?

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> sent original disk 3.0 Jan 1992, since then I
have mailed letters, faxed, certified mail, all with no response.

<DAVESMALL> Ohhhhhhhh. The light flickers (dimly). Here's the story.
The Gadgets address is a mailbnoxes'r'us place, okay? It has recently
had two spectacular turnovers in management (one guy swiped the "UPS"
neon sign, and split for Thailand. I kid you not). Current management
looks good. Jim, our phone lines have been up for weeks now. Did Wendy
hear about this? (what I'm saying is that the mail system weirded out
on us. We had to go pick our stuff out of a big pile in the floor.)

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> where can I get a hold of you to discuss this at
a better place? I am done.

<DAVESMALL> Jim, simply tell me what you want. A new 3.0 release disk
and 2.0 PD disk?

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> Just my original 3.0 disk back. That's all!

<DAVESMALL> You're still in Roseburg, Oregon? I just pulled the entry
up.

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> yes, I am.

<DAVESMALL> (I hope you haven't moved). This is exactly what I want to
do -- clear up any old business from the complete "crash of '92".  I
will see that you are sent a 3.0 by mail tomorrow, new. Do you want
the update manual (blue?)

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> OK, to simplify matters, why don't we leave the
customer problems until the end. Dave, you will wait around to answer
anyones questions regarding support problems? Anything else Jim?

<DAVESMALL> heck, I don't mind ... it's okay. Things did fall through
cracks.

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> I will fax you my address tonight, after this.
Let's let others ask questions. I will be here after.

<DAVESMALL> I do want you to promise to say something, say, cat 18, if
you don't get it. Or in Gadgets RT. We are not here to screw people
up.

<[Jim] J.STEINGROBE> I will!

<DAVESMALL> deal.  Thats that's two.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Jim! Ok, now it is Damien of DMJ turn to
discuss something with Dave. Speak Damien.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> I don't know too much about Spectre. Does it work
on a Falcon? If not, how soon can we expect it?  And do you plan on
making any of the Falcon graphics and sound available when running Mac
stuff? (Probably dumb questions all.)

<DAVESMALL> excellent questions, all. Essentially Spectre makes the
ST/TT line emulate a Mac by taking them over completely, not using the
Atari operating system, but the Mac. We support all the ST hardware
(floppies, etc) needed. Falcon has substantially new hardware that we
have to support, since the ST operating system can't be in there with
us. (Well, it can, grin, but...) It's a matter of, first, writing
drivers for the IDE and SCSI hard disks in the Falcon, then the floppy
(they are vastly different than TT). This is done. The video Atari has
been VERY helpful on. But I see new high-res modes I would like to
support, so I am watching.

The key thing is to get to the disk signals, so you can read "GCR"
formatted Mac disks on the Falcon "MFM" drive, ok? Everything else is
like falling off a log.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> Okay.

<DAVESMALL> Well, there is no connector except internal -- so we
solved it two ways. There's an external connector you can plug into
GCR, then take inside and "T" to the floppy. No soldering, I promise.
Or, an internal board which holds some new things as well as standard
GCR, and runs to a "T" on the drive. I could also just support a
floppy by myself; I've done it before. But most people seem to want an
internal, compact solution that doesn't dangle or dongle or whatever.
So, we don't have it it running yet, but we have a lot of it done.
It's a priorities question, one I am hoping for input tonight ... how
soon do you want it?

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> What version can we expect Falcon support in?
3.2?  3.3? And about how fast would a Falcon w/ GCR run compared to a
regular Mac (estimate)? And I wouldn't mind seeing it VERY soon.

<DAVESMALL> (me either, grin) -- That's a rough question. The Falcon
shares memory between video and CPU. In lower resolution (say, "ST Hi
Res"), it shows 60% TT speed in Quick Index bench. But in high-res
(true color, VGA) QIndex reports 40% TT. Now assume as a rough number
the TT is 24 Mhz ... that means in high rez, about 9.5 Mhz. That is
not an SST. I can work with what they give me, but it is not going to
be a rocket. For performance, the TT works great.  As for when, when
it becomes a priority (say) over System 7 support or other things.
(However, as you can see, my typing is as dreadful as ever). Does
that help?

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> With an SST a GCR is fast. I've seen your specs
on that.  I was wondering more about the performance in the graphics
modes, which you answered.  Thanks for your time--if you had more of
it you could type without typos.  I'm finished.

<DAVESMALL> Brian > I was going to mention that part of showing people
you're back online is handling "we fouled up" questions; I really
don't mind.  I have some utilities for SST I been hacking on which
have allowed me to speed up GCR (and required me to re-time the
thing...). I also have found some "features" of the 68030 chip that
are not documented, as with the 68000, doing this.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Next up is John Brubaker. It is all yours John!!

<DAVESMALL> I hope to give this away for TT and SST users as soon as
the minor glitches go away. Hiya John, I remember ya.

<[John] J.BRUBAKER> Any chance of Spectre running in Fastram on my
SST?

<DAVESMALL> Yes..  Excellent chance. See last question.

<[John] J.BRUBAKER> Anytime soon?

<DAVESMALL> (only 1992 prevented it)

<[John] J.BRUBAKER> I'll be looking forward to it, Thanks --I'm done.

<DAVESMALL> you're welcome!

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Next to the gate is Charles Smeton of New Star. Go
for it Charles!!

<DAVESMALL> Hiya Charles -- how goes the FAX software?

<[NewSTar] C.S.SMETON> Dave, things are going OK I guess, will Spectre
support HD floppies, STe DMA sound and color in the future?

<DAVESMALL> One at a time; HD floppies I need to discuss in public.
That is a volatile issue. DMA sound is tricky because the Mhz rates do
not match, and I do not know how to alter sound digitized at one rate
to the STe's DMA rate. Otherwise, we would have done it. There is even
code in there.

Color ... whew, what a pit on snakes. I am really tired of letting
this question slide by. I used to say, "we will never do color",
because the thought of disassembling 256K ROMS makes my palms sweat.
Then, I started to say, "We have stopped saying 'no' to color". So,
for the first time, I am going to say I am going to give my best shot
at supporting color for Mac emulation. This is a bigger step than
going to 128K ROMs. Two things:] Color was written using bitfield
opcodes. They are supported ONLY on 68020 on up. You cannot run the
8500+ bitfield instructions in the 256K ROMS on a 68000. Second: You
need a high rez card (see: Dan @ Gribnif for CrazyDots) because 640 x
200 is just too low to get anything done. Offhand, I would say the TT
is "okay" (16 colors in high rez) and the Falcon is good, although not
as fast. But we are going for it; I mean, I've already figgered out
the mistakes in the Apple documentation on color NuBus cards.

On HD floppies: The low level format of Apple and IBM and Atari HD
(1.44 meg) floppies is the same.This means the GCR hardware is not
needed to read a Mac HD density disk. However, it leaves me with a
very thorny copy protection issue, and piracy issue. Frankly, Charles,
I have pirated versions of nearly every emulator I ever wrote. I
collect them by language; people send them to me. Some of the pirates
have in-circuit emulators or logic analyzers and powerful tools. They
can rip through my copy protection. You're a SW vendor ... you've seen
piracy ... would you release a GCR that can be ripped off?

<[NewSTar] C.S.SMETON> Dave, Could HD Floppies be supported even with
dependence on the GCR hardware?

<DAVESMALL> I don't think the *present* GCR hardware will clock that
fast. I can be very tricky ... but, I mean, I got a note from some guy
in France that took much pride in the fact it had only taken him a
week to rip down the copy pro. It is extremely tricky, lots of
misdirection, and it took a week. We were lucky Spectre 128 didn't get
pirated faster, but then, we pulled a funny -- had a file on there
called Spectre.SYS just *loaded* with good looking code and plain text
saying "Spectre 128" and stuff, aching to be disassembled -- and it
was a total fraud. LOTS of people wasted time hacking it. All it ever
did if you tried to run it was emit a sick beep and crash. That's why
Spectre GCR exists ... I am hoping an idea will show up that will
solve this.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Charles Smeton of New Star. Next to the podium
is Ken Kestanford. Go for it Ken!!.

<DAVESMALL> Howdy Ken

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> hi, first off the raising was an accident.

<DAVESMALL> That's okay.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> not the first one , but the consecutive raising
function key problem

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> no problem Ken.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> namely me!@

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> hehe

<DAVESMALL>  .. function key problem? Is it the one where pressing
"SE" very fast simulates pressing an F1 ?

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> any ways I would like to know if a) gcr runs in
mono in hi res supported by the various graphics cards available.
Example 1200+?

<DAVESMALL> Some graphics cards work, some do not. I am working on a
loadable driver, which we will spec out for anufacturers, which will
enable their cards to work. For instance., Dan could code up a driver
(say, in "C") and save it as GRAPHICS.SYS in the Spectre directory;
I'd then use that driver to run the Crazy Dots board. I want this a
lot. ("work in progress", you might say.)

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> Okay. b) can gcr run in a multitasking
environment? (new versiop?~?~?s that is)

<DAVESMALL> The different resolutions the Falcon030 will do are also
forcing this. The 128K ROMS *do not like* non-contiguous display
memory, which is the hassle. Ken ... tell you what, can you keep a
secret?

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> sure

<DAVESMALL> Ok. I've even talked with the guy who developed MultiTOS
about swapping in and out Spectre and what it entails. But that is
between you and me. I hope for it

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> I won't tell [grin].  Anymore Ken?

<DAVESMALL> in the 3. versions; it is actually not that difficult with
the MMU, which you have in a full 68030 chip (say) on TT or Falcon or
SST.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> Yes.

<DAVESMALL> I'd love something like the older Intersect (am I right?)
task switcher.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> C) will you try to support true color if you do
get the color emulation working?

<DAVESMALL> One keypress, bam, you're switched, and carry the
clipboard.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> Sorry?

<DAVESMALL> Ken, of course. Once you get to that point, it's like
tripping off a log, it's just in the device driver on the simulated
NuBus card. This is 15 bit color, remember.  Of course, CrazyDots
might do better than 15 bits. Hmmmm.  Not to mention the Lexicor card.

<[Ken S] K.KESTANFORD> does that also include video capture devices
specific to the atari? what about file compatibilities and transfers

<DAVESMALL> However, truecolor is VERY time intensive on CPU. It even
bogs my IIfx -- and I stuck an accelerator in it! Ken, I got a garble
on that. The phone lines are wet here. Pardon if I don't answer your
question! Let oops. Video capture for Atari. I have one. They tell you
how to write a capturer; ity would probably have to move to Mac mode,
unless you pull image in, move to Mac compatible format, and move to
Mac mode. I can't tell on the second question; could you repeat it?

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Ken's questions were:
      Does that also include video capture devices specific to the
atari? What about file compatibilities and transfers?

<DAVESMALL> It depends on what the device writes out. For instance,
PicSwitch is quite good at translating picture formats to Mac format;
then you Transvert or MacSee them over to Mac mode. I have the low-rez
one from England -- we did the Spectre birthday pics with it.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Rob Anisko will take a turn at asking a question.
Speak Rob!

<[(((Rob)))] R.ANISKO> oops - okay, here goes...  Dave, I don't know
if this would be an appropriate question

<DAVESMALL> fire away ...

<[(((Rob)))] R.ANISKO> for you or someone like Eric Smith, but since
MiNT (and I assume MTOS) supports additional filesystems (like minix),
have you given any thought to an add-on filesystem to access MAC
partitions (or at least Spectre partitions) - this would make
transferring files between the MAC and ST sides a bit easier (though I
imagine this would not be a "one-nighter" project :-)

<DAVESMALL> Well, sure, Rob. Inside Macintosh docs point you to a
document for "Foreign File Systems", like MS-DOS, which you can
support. Programs like Access/PC and DOS Mounter do that on the Mac
end. Programs like Transverter (MFS Mac) and MacRead/MacSEE (HFS Mac)
do it on the ST end. Thing is with all them programs around, and me
approaching senility at 35 ... errr, why not write something there is
no alternative for?

<[Rob] R.ANISKO> so we would be nice to move files from TOS to minix
to spectre with no change of pace... (one other question...)

<DAVESMALL> I agree ... it's just a question of priorities. Alas, I'm
not Microsoft.

<[Rob] R.ANISKO> Bill the Gates? :-)  anyways...

<DAVESMALL> (Also, remember the CR/LF vs. LF line termination
problems, etc, and other translation issues.)

<[Rob] R.ANISKO> oh - just some maybe useful info - I had run across
MAC systems in IMAGE format (on the Apple FTP site) and had trouble
converting them to disks. I found a MAC control panel program called
MountImage that lets you mount the image on the desktop, then you can
copy them to disk from there - just curious if you've run across this
before (messing with Image files, etc)...

<DAVESMALL> Yeah ... did he ever get married? Rob, wow, that is a
program I would like. I'm on the internet now.  Wherezit?

<[Rob] R.ANISKO> can't remember at the moment - but I'll post
something in one of the BB's...

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Rob!! Big John will ask a real big ( oh,
terrible pun) question. Ask Dave your question/comment Big John!!

<DAVESMALL> Rob, thank you!

<[Big John] JP.BAKER> Dave, how will we get the upgrades? Also, HELP,
I've misplaced my original Spectre GCR manual!! A bit lame after the
above, but I gotta know...

<DAVESMALL> John, how-2-get upgrades will depend some on how much it
costs us to make them. For instance, I had to bring in an outside guy
on SCSI. Ouch! This $30 an hour stuff is painful. Other things will
just be a download, but right now, I can't say precisely on GCR,
because what is working and what is not is not final. I *hate*
lockups, for instance, where you can't find the timing loop. I hate to
seem like I'm dodging the question, but at the moment, I am not
certain, and I don't want to spread around bad information. Heaven
knows there's enough of that! (The other issue, of course, is that I
live with the person who will finally determine pricing).

<DAVESMALL> (I don't want to sleep on the couch.)

<[Big John] JP.BAKER> Yeah, thanks; how should I handle this missing
manual? I have all of everything from 128 and GCR but no GCR manual.
Help?

<DAVESMALL> Can I get by with a grin, and a promise I'll tell you when
I know? John, I'll have to dig up some manuals from storage, plus the
3.0 blue update; but you are not the only one who needs a manual, so
it isn't a big deal. Could you leave me email with your address and a
reminder? It might take a few days -- the Jeep's license plates ran
out.

<[Big John] JP.BAKER> Sure, no problem. Thanks very much; I'm done.

<DAVESMALL> No charge.

<[Big John] JP.BAKER> great!

<DAVESMALL> Heck, we released thousands of 2.65 version disks at no
charge, "surprise!".

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Next up is Dave Smith. It is all yours Dave!!

<[Dave] D.SMITH200> Dave, will Spectre 3.? support at least 8 Megs for
TT's/SST's? This, IMHO is of more practical import, since Mac  APPs
are such memory hogs. Since timing is solved, this would be the next
logical step before Sys7 support. Yes? Possibly?

<DAVESMALL> Hey Dave! My long time RTC'er

<[Dave] D.SMITH200> Keeping the faith...

<DAVESMALL> Dave, Spectre can support 8M or 12M or about 14-15M with a
few pointer changes. BUT ...  many mac programs do this thing where
they "compress memory". They do it by requesting an 8 meg memory
block, and assume it will fail. The machine will try to get them the
memory, and the program just does a whammo if it *succeeds*. If we
give it 8M or 12M, which I can do with SST, it will succeed -- and
some very popular programs will fall on their noses. I suppose I could
patch the memory allocator, but there are already so many patches
there that it is more bandaid than original code. I think the way to
go is leave the option to the user. We almost turned it on with 3.0.
[Which is why those memory values are in there but grayed out]

<[Dave] D.SMITH200> Sys 6.x has the 8 meg limit. You'd need to debug
Sys 7 to access more than that anyway. That's all,

<DAVESMALL> Dave, honest, it doesn't. I keep in touch with the other
emulator guys and we swap tips. For instance, they told me how to fix
6.0.5's floppy problem, which made it into 3.0. However, sys 6 HAS a
24-bit problem: it can't go past 16M. Multifinder in particular has a
spazz attack. Sandy switched to Sys 7, which doesn't, but I personally
don't get turned on by it. I probably can't give you more than around
12-15 M in Sys 6, though. I don't want to mention names on which s/w
manufacturer does the 8M trick.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks Dave, next we have K.Fadus, go K.F.!!

<K.FADUS> Hi Dave

<DAVESMALL> Howdy! (easiest question all night!)

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> hehe

<K.FADUS> I have a Mega STe with a 1.44 meg HDD drive and the only way
to reliably read Mac disks is to read an ST disk before going to Mac
Mode.

<DAVESMALL> Yeah, sigh ...

<K.FADUS> Are you aware of this problem and does 3.1 fix it?

<DAVESMALL> See, the problem is, Atari didn't consult with me before
releasing the Mega STE.  (Yup, very often reported, and very often
fixed) What it is, is the drive is in "high density", 1.44 meg mode.
By reading a low density disk, you force it into low density. It stays
there, since Spectre 3.0 does not mess with density, since the Mste
with that controller chip wasn't out when 3.0 was released. However,
yes, it's on the fix list on the postit note 2" from your text on my
monitor

<K.FADUS> Sounds good!

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Thanks K.F.! The speaker now call on James Armstrong
to take the mike.  Converse James!

<[James] J.ARMSTRON20> Hi Dave, I sent a GCR in to be updated in May
and have been told it has shipped a couple of times.  I haven't
received it yet.? I've been talking to Wendy and she has no idea where
it is.

<DAVESMALL> James, Wendy talked with me a couple of hours ago about
that. I checked down at  Mail'r'us and they say it should be on the
way. It got stuck in the (errrr) divorce and who ended up with
ownership of the place. Wendy calls you Jim, by the way. The updated
cart is out the door.

<[James] J.ARMSTRON20> Thanks. I'm looking forward to it.

<DAVESMALL> I'll call Donna in the morning and double check. Several
GCR's got held up with that mess. SIGH!

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Ah, after a long wait Jim Allen of Fast Tech will
share his question with us. Impart knowledge, Jim!!

<[FAST TECH] J.ALLEN27> Hi Dave! I wanted to ask you, and also the
folks here, if you'd consider an Atari ST emulator for the Mac? The
power/price ration for the Mac LCIII is sooo good, that a small board
and emulator SW that turned it into an ST would do real well I think.
What do you think? That's it.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> good question Jim.

<DAVESMALL> Jim, since you have become an "expert witness" against
Gadgets in the lawsuit about SST chips, my attorney advises me not to
answer ANYTHING you say publicly, period.

<DAVESMALL> next question.

<[FAST TECH] J.ALLEN27> Oops.

<DAVESMALL> Ooops my foot.

<DAVESMALL> See you in court.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> OK, Jim. Sorry. On to the next one. Another patient
user is Yat Sui. Yat is the European rep for LEXICOR. Glad to have you
here Yat. Ask away!

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> Thanks, one question, do you know how well your
SST board will work with 3rd Party Graphics Boards such as the NOVA
Card (Lexicor Board). The Megabus version of the NOVA connects
straight into the Megabus.

<DAVESMALL> Wow, I very much want it to! So,

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> heh..that all for now

<DAVESMALL> what I'm going to do is set up a way where a driver can be
written to interface anything (say, a CrazyDots Board), to the
Spectre. It's not going to be a really painful thing to write, and
should get us there quick and easy. I have heard LOTS of good things
about the Nova board indeed!

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> Thanks a lot uhm..and th SST?

<DAVESMALL> ah, wait

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> <grin>

<DAVESMALL> I am asking a user with both (talk about a conference
call) Okay, Spectre works in the 640 x 480 x 2 mode on the Nova card,
I am told

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> Great! News!

<DAVESMALL> Looks like display memory is compatible; we really tried
hard to read GEM and find out about the card, then configure for it. I
really must give credit for this to Dan Moore and Doug Wheeler, who
contributed a LOT to Spectre.

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> Uhmmm but I was asking about the SST board and
the Megabus Thanks a lot D&D

<DAVESMALL> Ah. Sorry. Let me ask. <grin> (hang in there)

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> finish both of you?

<DAVESMALL> Brian, can you open up job 4 ?

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> Sure will :)

<DAVESMALL> d.smith200?

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> he is open

<DAVESMALL> Hey, Dave, you in there?

<[Dave] D.SMITH200> Yeh

<DAVESMALL> Does Nova work with Spectre and SST? ["Interrogation
Techniques", Volume II]

<[Dave] D.SMITH200>  Dave, would George be willing to let the 32 bit
bus for the SST be opened up for development for other cards?

<DAVESMALL> Dave > yes, but  ... Nova?

<[Dave] D.SMITH200> Don't know about SST and the NOVA. Mine is the TT
VME version.

<DAVESMALL> Alas, sorry.

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> That's still great news..thanks

<DAVESMALL> Hey, thanks for setting up display memory right

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> I didn't even expect it to run on th Spectre at
all....:-) Bye

<DAVESMALL> Us assembly types appreciate that when drawing vertical!

<[Yat@Lexicor] Y.SIU> That's it from me

<[HOST] BRIAN.H>  Ok, now it is Damien of DMJ turn to again discuss a
question with Dave. Speak Damien.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> Two questions, Dave.

<DAVESMALL> 42,21.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> First, you mentioned a problem playing sound with
STe DMA. Why is this hard?

<DAVESMALL> Welp, the Mac sounds are digitized at a different sampling
rate than the STE DMA setup works at (something like, 25 khz vs. 22).
So you play back and it sounds weird. Mac sound works a video frame at
a time, literally, pumps a byte out each scan line of PCM music.  I
don't have the foggiest how to translate that to Spectre without a DSP
chip and losing my mind. Bob Brodie got me a DSP chip, certainly, but
I'm still working on losing my mind. The problem is the *segments* of
music are played all wrong 1/60th sec at a time, or 1/70th in mono.
<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> I can think of several ways this might be
implemented. Should we discuss this technical stuff later?
 We really tried -- Atari loaned us a MegaSTE early Heavens, tell me,
and I'll put you in the hidden dedication page.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> 'Course, you probably tried everything...

<DAVESMALL> Voodoo is okay, sorcery fine, but black magic ... well ...
the blood sacrifices are SO hard to get off the carpet.

<[I loathe PCs] DMJ> My other question was even more technical, and
rather pointless since you're using an external driver approach to
graphics.  Thanks.

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Ok, after a long night and bedtime stories to his
children, we have Oregon Research own Bob Luneski. Go Bob!

<DAVESMALL> Hiya Bob! You're doing HiSoft's stuff, right?

<[OregonResrch] ORA> Yes we are, and a whole lot more, but lets talk
about you :-) Are you planning on supporting AppleTalk networks
through the TT or Falcon Lan ports??

<DAVESMALL> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We did extensive and painful work
on the TT

<[OregonResrch] ORA> Bless you....

<DAVESMALL> to make this go. The problem is, Appletalk runs at 230400
baud, fine -- but the packets are setup with *timing loop*. You can
imagine what hell the cache played

<[OregonResrch] ORA> We REALLY want to be able to network our Spectre
Macs to our real ones.

<DAVESMALL> with a DBF countdown loop. We got transmit working, but
receive is still down. Falcon is trickier -- since effective CPU speed
varies.  Lordee, us too. That's why we did MegaTalk; it plugs right
into the Mac network, since it is so close to the Mac hardware. I
should mention (since I have) that we are *out* of both MegaTalks and
SST's; we shipped every one that worked. My son and daughter helped
test!
 .. dropped lines ..

<[OregonResrch] ORA> That's all. Many thanks and best of luck...

<DAVESMALL> "That's why we did 'MegaTalk'; it plugs right into the Mac
network, since its so close to the Mac hardware. I should" ... then
add the rest. Sorry.

<DAVESMALL> (I should do press conferences: I answer questions
backwards. :=)

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> Final question of the night is from Robbie Harper.
Take the last turn at asking a question.  Speak Robbie!

<DAVESMALL> "Danger, Will Robinson!"

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> OK, first I would like to congratulate you on a
working product! Anyway, you said something earlier about MSTe and TT
problems.

<DAVESMALL> ]Thank you ... Neil Young is playing on the CD. He gets
credit too. okay, which problems? Disk or Appletalk/Localtalk?

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> I have had both (Now a TT) and have experienced
problems with neither. Could you tell more about reported problems?
Also, tell Ken that the TT does GLORIOUS 1280x960 on the TT with
Moniterm! With Spectre that is!

<DAVESMALL> Um. You've got a GCR, a TT, and have had no problems?
(Yes, Doug hooked in special code for the TT-Moniterm).

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> No, no problems.  Running in fast ram with all
speed enhancements on! Also, could we dispel or ok some of the rumors
of a Falcon internal GCR...  you touched on it earlier but weren't
specific.

<DAVESMALL> I'm never ever one to fix something that's working! What I
would do is go out and buy "Neil Young, Live Rust" on CD. I played it
probably 500 times (on repeat) during dev. Maybe more. I'm sitting
here looking at a PC board for a GCR ... and something more ...  that
plugs into the two expansion pinsets of the Falcon. It was to have
been shown at NAMM early this year. The Falcon is a neat machine and
Atari has supported us 100% in development, and gave us zero trouble
when Eric had a bad time and we had to stop. We are still working on
Falcon GCR (and you should be able to read in lots more).

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> OK, for input on the necessity of color, maybe
that should be last on my list, but I don't know about others.  The
mac works fine in mono...

<DAVESMALL> Sort of, wink, wink, wink! It's certainly faster. The Mac
II ROMs original Color Quickdraw is just real slow to see on .. how
shall I say this .. alternate, non-NuBus hardware. Fortunately, Andy
Hertzfeld wrote "Quickerdraw", an INIT which REALLY sped things up,
and it seems to work quite well. He is an assembler wizard; I'm
definitely a moped compared to him. Anywho, Apple bought Quickerdraw
and put it into later ROMS. Now mind you, I wouldn't be saying that
I've beeno testing redraw speeds on, oh, a uTT in 16 color mode.  get
at first it would blow! Ooops, I didn't say that.

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> And last of all, I am sorry that anyone has ever
pirated your work. The Atari is probably the most vulnerable to that
sort of thing and it is really bad that someone would do that.  TT 16
color would be great for me ! :.)  That is all for  me....

<DAVESMALL> (I just hate to finish a conference without some fun)
Well, Wayne Smith, who designed the ATR-8000 for 8-bit Atari and CP/M,
told me that I would know that I had finally "made it" when my work
was ripped off. It certainly has been ... I think there's 30 disks in
the collection. But the key thing is confidence within the Atari
community in your work; the pirates aren't really that deeply
intertwined. For me, shipping out SST and MegaTalk pre-sold out is a
vote of confidence, and it means a lot to me; the GCR has never gotten
out of backorder. (!!) (True). But it also means that if we foul up
and let people down -- like Dan Wilga with Gribnif (Crazy Dots), that
we have to make it right, and tell you what happened, and that we are
going to fix it.  I'll print this RTC tonight and mark the items for
tomorrow for fixing. Service is the only way to survive in the Atari
world, and honestly, I do not want to change to IBM clones or some
such.

<[Robbie] T.HARPER4> Well good luck from me and all the supporters out
here and we are glad to see you back!

<DAVESMALL>  Me too! (The thanks are on the people who waited.)

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> We're drawing to a close for the formal portion of
the GADGETS RTC. Before I put the room into Frenzy Mode, do you have
any closing words, DAVE?

<DAVESMALL> me? a writer that used to get paid by the word? sure!

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> hehe

<DAVESMALL>  Thank you, everyone, that wrote in for Eric. Your letters
and notes and FAXes kept saying, "you will get better", especially
Dave Flory's.  That got us through some really rough nights, muscle
spasms and painkillers.  And thanks for trusting enough in us that we
would come back.  3.1 is in alpha test; that's enough!

<[HOST] BRIAN.H> I wish to thank you Dave for making it here tonight.
I also wish to thank all the attendees for their questions and
patience. In frenzy mode ...now!



                              End of Formal RTC

****************************************************************************

Be sure to stop by on Wednesdays for the ATARI RTCs. Here is a short
list of upcoming conferences:

  ST INFORMER/CURRENT NOTES RTC Wed., 14th July at 10 p.m (EDT).
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Clear Thinking RTC with Craig Harvey, 21st July at 10 p.m. EDT
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Damien M. Jones of dmj Software, guest in the July 28th RTC.